I’m struggling to get an intuition on the non-existence of countably saturated models for complete theories with uncountably many types... I know many people on here seem to abhor the “why?” question, but I can’t help but ask why is this the case, in order to fully understand the issue.
2026-03-30 13:34:04.1774877644
Countably Saturated Models
244 Views Asked by Bumbble Comm https://math.techqa.club/user/bumbble-comm/detail At
1
There are 1 best solutions below
Related Questions in MODEL-THEORY
- What is the definition of 'constructible group'?
- Translate into first order logic: "$a, b, c$ are the lengths of the sides of a triangle"
- Existence of indiscernible set in model equivalent to another indiscernible set
- A ring embeds in a field iff every finitely generated sub-ring does it
- Graph with a vertex of infinite degree elementary equiv. with a graph with vertices of arbitrarily large finite degree
- What would be the function to make a formula false?
- Sufficient condition for isomorphism of $L$-structures when $L$ is relational
- Show that PA can prove the pigeon-hole principle
- Decidability and "truth value"
- Prove or disprove: $\exists x \forall y \,\,\varphi \models \forall y \exists x \,\ \varphi$
Trending Questions
- Induction on the number of equations
- How to convince a math teacher of this simple and obvious fact?
- Find $E[XY|Y+Z=1 ]$
- Refuting the Anti-Cantor Cranks
- What are imaginary numbers?
- Determine the adjoint of $\tilde Q(x)$ for $\tilde Q(x)u:=(Qu)(x)$ where $Q:U→L^2(Ω,ℝ^d$ is a Hilbert-Schmidt operator and $U$ is a Hilbert space
- Why does this innovative method of subtraction from a third grader always work?
- How do we know that the number $1$ is not equal to the number $-1$?
- What are the Implications of having VΩ as a model for a theory?
- Defining a Galois Field based on primitive element versus polynomial?
- Can't find the relationship between two columns of numbers. Please Help
- Is computer science a branch of mathematics?
- Is there a bijection of $\mathbb{R}^n$ with itself such that the forward map is connected but the inverse is not?
- Identification of a quadrilateral as a trapezoid, rectangle, or square
- Generator of inertia group in function field extension
Popular # Hahtags
second-order-logic
numerical-methods
puzzle
logic
probability
number-theory
winding-number
real-analysis
integration
calculus
complex-analysis
sequences-and-series
proof-writing
set-theory
functions
homotopy-theory
elementary-number-theory
ordinary-differential-equations
circles
derivatives
game-theory
definite-integrals
elementary-set-theory
limits
multivariable-calculus
geometry
algebraic-number-theory
proof-verification
partial-derivative
algebra-precalculus
Popular Questions
- What is the integral of 1/x?
- How many squares actually ARE in this picture? Is this a trick question with no right answer?
- Is a matrix multiplied with its transpose something special?
- What is the difference between independent and mutually exclusive events?
- Visually stunning math concepts which are easy to explain
- taylor series of $\ln(1+x)$?
- How to tell if a set of vectors spans a space?
- Calculus question taking derivative to find horizontal tangent line
- How to determine if a function is one-to-one?
- Determine if vectors are linearly independent
- What does it mean to have a determinant equal to zero?
- Is this Batman equation for real?
- How to find perpendicular vector to another vector?
- How to find mean and median from histogram
- How many sides does a circle have?

Below is an example in an infinite language; it's not hard to modify it to work in a finite language.
Actually, barring further context there's a serious typo in the text. All complete theories have countably saturated models; what's true is that we don't always have countable countably saturated models.
Interestingly, the existence of fully saturated models of any cardinality of arbitrary complete theories is independent of the usual axioms of set theory!
For $i\in\mathbb{N}$ let $U_i$ be a unary relation symbol. For $A,B$ disjoint finite sets of natural numbers, let $$\psi_{A,B}\equiv\exists x[\bigwedge_{a\in A}U_a(x)]\wedge[\bigwedge_{b\in B}\neg U_b(x)].$$ Let $$T=\{\psi_{A,B}: A,B\mbox{ disjoint finite sets of naturals}\}.$$
Intuitively, a model of $T$ amounts to a bunch of subsets of $\mathbb{N}$, possibly with repetition (and conversely, a multiset of subsets of $\mathbb{N}$ yields a model of $T$ precisely when it is appropriately "dense" in $\mathcal{P}(\mathbb{N})$).
If $M\models T$ is countably saturated, then for each $S\subseteq\mathbb{N}$ there must be some $c\in M$ such that for all $i$ we have $M\models U_i(c)$ iff $i\in S$. But this means that no model of $T$ with cardinality $<2^{\aleph_0}$ is countably saturated.
(It's not hard to modify the above to use only a finite language.)
In general, the point is that a structure's cardinality can't be smaller than the number of distinct types realized in it (trivially), and reasonably saturated models have to realize lots of types.