Is $\mathbb Z$ first-order definable in $\mathbb{Z\times Z}$ (using sum and product but obviously not the concept of "component")? I believe no but how may I prove it? Is this standard?
2026-04-06 02:53:03.1775443983
Is $\mathbb Z$ first-order definable in (the ring) $\mathbb{Z\times Z}$?
303 Views Asked by Bumbble Comm https://math.techqa.club/user/bumbble-comm/detail At
1
There are 1 best solutions below
Related Questions in ABSTRACT-ALGEBRA
- Feel lost in the scheme of the reducibility of polynomials over $\Bbb Z$ or $\Bbb Q$
- Integral Domain and Degree of Polynomials in $R[X]$
- Fixed points of automorphisms of $\mathbb{Q}(\zeta)$
- Group with order $pq$ has subgroups of order $p$ and $q$
- A commutative ring is prime if and only if it is a domain.
- Conjugacy class formula
- Find gcd and invertible elements of a ring.
- Extending a linear action to monomials of higher degree
- polynomial remainder theorem proof, is it legit?
- $(2,1+\sqrt{-5}) \not \cong \mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{-5}]$ as $\mathbb{Z}[\sqrt{-5}]$-module
Related Questions in RING-THEORY
- Jacobson radical = nilradical iff every open set of $\text{Spec}A$ contains a closed point.
- A commutative ring is prime if and only if it is a domain.
- Find gcd and invertible elements of a ring.
- Prove that $R[x]$ is an integral domain if and only if $R$ is an integral domain.
- Prove that $Z[i]/(5)$ is not a field. Check proof?
- If $P$ is a prime ideal of $R[x;\delta]$ such as $P\cap R=\{0\}$, is $P(Q[x;\delta])$ also prime?
- Let $R$ be a simple ring having a minimal left ideal $L$. Then every simple $R$-module is isomorphic to $L$.
- A quotient of a polynomial ring
- Does a ring isomorphism between two $F$-algebras must be a $F$-linear transformation
- Prove that a ring of fractions is a local ring
Related Questions in MODEL-THEORY
- What is the definition of 'constructible group'?
- Translate into first order logic: "$a, b, c$ are the lengths of the sides of a triangle"
- Existence of indiscernible set in model equivalent to another indiscernible set
- A ring embeds in a field iff every finitely generated sub-ring does it
- Graph with a vertex of infinite degree elementary equiv. with a graph with vertices of arbitrarily large finite degree
- What would be the function to make a formula false?
- Sufficient condition for isomorphism of $L$-structures when $L$ is relational
- Show that PA can prove the pigeon-hole principle
- Decidability and "truth value"
- Prove or disprove: $\exists x \forall y \,\,\varphi \models \forall y \exists x \,\ \varphi$
Trending Questions
- Induction on the number of equations
- How to convince a math teacher of this simple and obvious fact?
- Find $E[XY|Y+Z=1 ]$
- Refuting the Anti-Cantor Cranks
- What are imaginary numbers?
- Determine the adjoint of $\tilde Q(x)$ for $\tilde Q(x)u:=(Qu)(x)$ where $Q:U→L^2(Ω,ℝ^d$ is a Hilbert-Schmidt operator and $U$ is a Hilbert space
- Why does this innovative method of subtraction from a third grader always work?
- How do we know that the number $1$ is not equal to the number $-1$?
- What are the Implications of having VΩ as a model for a theory?
- Defining a Galois Field based on primitive element versus polynomial?
- Can't find the relationship between two columns of numbers. Please Help
- Is computer science a branch of mathematics?
- Is there a bijection of $\mathbb{R}^n$ with itself such that the forward map is connected but the inverse is not?
- Identification of a quadrilateral as a trapezoid, rectangle, or square
- Generator of inertia group in function field extension
Popular # Hahtags
second-order-logic
numerical-methods
puzzle
logic
probability
number-theory
winding-number
real-analysis
integration
calculus
complex-analysis
sequences-and-series
proof-writing
set-theory
functions
homotopy-theory
elementary-number-theory
ordinary-differential-equations
circles
derivatives
game-theory
definite-integrals
elementary-set-theory
limits
multivariable-calculus
geometry
algebraic-number-theory
proof-verification
partial-derivative
algebra-precalculus
Popular Questions
- What is the integral of 1/x?
- How many squares actually ARE in this picture? Is this a trick question with no right answer?
- Is a matrix multiplied with its transpose something special?
- What is the difference between independent and mutually exclusive events?
- Visually stunning math concepts which are easy to explain
- taylor series of $\ln(1+x)$?
- How to tell if a set of vectors spans a space?
- Calculus question taking derivative to find horizontal tangent line
- How to determine if a function is one-to-one?
- Determine if vectors are linearly independent
- What does it mean to have a determinant equal to zero?
- Is this Batman equation for real?
- How to find perpendicular vector to another vector?
- How to find mean and median from histogram
- How many sides does a circle have?
You are asking if the set $\Delta = \{(a, a) \mathrel{|} a \in \Bbb{Z}\}$ is definable using the first-order language of rings in the product ring $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$. I have not come across this before, but I believe the answer is no (as you suspected). To see this, choose variables $e$ and $f$ and think of them as parameters such that $\{e, f\} = \{(1, 0), (0, 1)\}$ (i.e., we know that $e$ is one of $(1, 0)$ and $(0, 1)$ and $f$ is the other one, but we don't know which is which). Consider the the annihilators of $f$ and $e$, i.e., the sets defined by the formulas: $$ \begin{array}{rcl} E(x) & {:=} & xf = 0 \\ F(x) & {:=} &xe = 0 \end{array} $$ I will refer to these sets as the $e$-axis and the $f$-axis. The multiplication and addition of $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$ make the $e$-axis into a ring with $e$ as the multiplicative identity and likewise for the $f$-axis and $f$. Now assume $\delta(x)$ is a formula defining $\Delta$ and consider the formula: $$ \begin{array}{rcl} \rho(x, y) & {:=} & E(x) \land F(y) \land \exists z(\delta(z) \land z = x + y) \end{array} $$ Let $\phi$ be a formula parametrised by $e$ and $f$ and with no other free variables that asserts that the $e$-axis and the $f$-axis are rings with multiplicative identities $e$ and $f$ respectively and that $\rho(x, y)$ defines a ring isomorphism between these rings. By easy algebra we can show that $\phi$ holds in $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$ if $e$ and $f$ are interpreted so that $\{e, f\} = \{(1, 0), (0, 1)\}$. Hence the following sentence holds in $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$: $$ \begin{array}{rcl} \Phi & {:=} & \exists e\exists f (ef = 0 \land e + f = 1 \land \phi) \end{array} $$ since in $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$, $ef = 0$ and $e + f = 1$ iff $\{e, f\} = \{(1, 0), (0, 1)\}$.
Now take a non-standard model $A$ of the theory of $\Bbb{Z}$ and consider the ring $\Bbb{Z}\times A$. By the Feferman-Vaught theorem, the first-order theory of $\Bbb{Z}\times A$ is the same as the first-order theory of $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$. Hence, assuming there is a formula $\delta(x)$ defining $\Delta$ in $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$, the sentence $\Phi$ described above in terms of $\delta(x)$ holds in $\Bbb{Z}\times A$. But just as in $\Bbb{Z}\times\Bbb{Z}$, in $\Bbb{Z}\times A$, $ef = 0$ and $e + f = 1$ imply that $\{e, f\} = \{(1, 0), (0, 1)\}$ and hence that $E(x)$ and $F(x)$ define the rings $\Bbb{Z}\times \{0\}$ and $\{0\} \times A$ (or vice versa). But for such $e$ and $f$, $\phi$ asserts that these rings are isomorphic, which is false. Hence $\Phi$ is false in $\Bbb{Z}\times A$ and we have a contradiction. So $\Delta$ cannot be definable.