I've been looking for a permutation model in which $IDI$ (every infinite set is Dedekind-infinite) and $\neg AC$ holds. I have found several (for example in Countable Sums and Products of Metrizable Spaces in $ZF$ by Keremedis and Tachtsis, Theorem 14), but they all require a lot of group theory and very long proofs to show that $IDI$ holds. I was wondering if anyone is aware of an example of such a permutation model with a much simpler proof that $IDI$ holds?
2026-03-27 14:11:11.1774620671
Permutation model in which infinite sets are Dedekind-infinite
93 Views Asked by Bumbble Comm https://math.techqa.club/user/bumbble-comm/detail At
1
There are 1 best solutions below
Related Questions in SET-THEORY
- Theorems in MK would imply theorems in ZFC
- What formula proved in MK or Godel Incompleteness theorem
- Proving the schema of separation from replacement
- Understanding the Axiom of Replacement
- Ordinals and cardinals in ETCS set axiomatic
- Minimal model over forcing iteration
- How can I prove that the collection of all (class-)function from a proper class A to a class B is empty?
- max of limit cardinals smaller than a successor cardinal bigger than $\aleph_\omega$
- Canonical choice of many elements not contained in a set
- Non-standard axioms + ZF and rest of math
Related Questions in FORCING
- Minimal model over forcing iteration
- Forcing homeomorphism
- Question about the proof of Lemma 14.19 (Maximum Principle) in Jech's Set Theory
- The proof of Generic Model Theorem (14.5) in Jech's Set Theory p.218
- Simple applications of forcing in recursion theory?
- Rudimentary results in iterated forcing.
- Exercises for continuum hypothesis and forcing
- Possibility of preserving the ultrafilter on $\mathcal{P}_{\kappa}(\lambda)$ in V[G] after forcing with a <$\kappa$ directed closed poset?
- "Synthetic" proof of a theorem about nice names.
- If $G$ is $P$-generic over $V$ and $G^*$ is $j''P$-generic over $M$ then $j$ can be extended to $V[G]$.
Trending Questions
- Induction on the number of equations
- How to convince a math teacher of this simple and obvious fact?
- Find $E[XY|Y+Z=1 ]$
- Refuting the Anti-Cantor Cranks
- What are imaginary numbers?
- Determine the adjoint of $\tilde Q(x)$ for $\tilde Q(x)u:=(Qu)(x)$ where $Q:U→L^2(Ω,ℝ^d$ is a Hilbert-Schmidt operator and $U$ is a Hilbert space
- Why does this innovative method of subtraction from a third grader always work?
- How do we know that the number $1$ is not equal to the number $-1$?
- What are the Implications of having VΩ as a model for a theory?
- Defining a Galois Field based on primitive element versus polynomial?
- Can't find the relationship between two columns of numbers. Please Help
- Is computer science a branch of mathematics?
- Is there a bijection of $\mathbb{R}^n$ with itself such that the forward map is connected but the inverse is not?
- Identification of a quadrilateral as a trapezoid, rectangle, or square
- Generator of inertia group in function field extension
Popular # Hahtags
second-order-logic
numerical-methods
puzzle
logic
probability
number-theory
winding-number
real-analysis
integration
calculus
complex-analysis
sequences-and-series
proof-writing
set-theory
functions
homotopy-theory
elementary-number-theory
ordinary-differential-equations
circles
derivatives
game-theory
definite-integrals
elementary-set-theory
limits
multivariable-calculus
geometry
algebraic-number-theory
proof-verification
partial-derivative
algebra-precalculus
Popular Questions
- What is the integral of 1/x?
- How many squares actually ARE in this picture? Is this a trick question with no right answer?
- Is a matrix multiplied with its transpose something special?
- What is the difference between independent and mutually exclusive events?
- Visually stunning math concepts which are easy to explain
- taylor series of $\ln(1+x)$?
- How to tell if a set of vectors spans a space?
- Calculus question taking derivative to find horizontal tangent line
- How to determine if a function is one-to-one?
- Determine if vectors are linearly independent
- What does it mean to have a determinant equal to zero?
- Is this Batman equation for real?
- How to find perpendicular vector to another vector?
- How to find mean and median from histogram
- How many sides does a circle have?
The simplest examples are in Chapter 8 of Jech's "Axiom of Choice" book.
Simply put, it is not hard to verify that if the filter of groups is closed under countable intersections (or if the filter is generated by fixing an ideal of sets, then the ideal is closed under countable unions), then $\sf DC$ holds in the model.
So, for example, when the atoms have size $\aleph_1$, taking all the permutations of the atoms and fixing pointwise any countable set of atoms will do the trick.