I just wanted to confirm that the proof of the existence of Beth_omega, using Replacement, and defining a function from N into Beth_1, Beth_2..., does not assume Choice somehow. That is, the existence of Beth_omega is provable in ZF, right? Thanks, in advance.
2026-03-25 12:54:26.1774443266
Proving the existence of $\beth_\omega$ in ZF
132 Views Asked by Bumbble Comm https://math.techqa.club/user/bumbble-comm/detail At
1
There are 1 best solutions below
Related Questions in SET-THEORY
- Theorems in MK would imply theorems in ZFC
- What formula proved in MK or Godel Incompleteness theorem
- Proving the schema of separation from replacement
- Understanding the Axiom of Replacement
- Ordinals and cardinals in ETCS set axiomatic
- Minimal model over forcing iteration
- How can I prove that the collection of all (class-)function from a proper class A to a class B is empty?
- max of limit cardinals smaller than a successor cardinal bigger than $\aleph_\omega$
- Canonical choice of many elements not contained in a set
- Non-standard axioms + ZF and rest of math
Related Questions in CARDINALS
- Ordinals and cardinals in ETCS set axiomatic
- max of limit cardinals smaller than a successor cardinal bigger than $\aleph_\omega$
- If $\kappa$ is a regular cardinal then $\kappa^{<\kappa} = \max\{\kappa, 2^{<\kappa}\}$
- Intuition regarding: $\kappa^{+}=|\{\kappa\leq\alpha\lt \kappa^{+}\}|$
- On finding enough rationals (countable) to fill the uncountable number of intervals between the irrationals.
- Is the set of cardinalities totally ordered?
- Show that $n+\aleph_0=\aleph_0$
- $COF(\lambda)$ is stationary in $k$, where $\lambda < k$ is regular.
- What is the cardinality of a set of all points on a line?
- Better way to define this bijection [0,1) to (0,1)
Related Questions in AXIOM-OF-CHOICE
- Do I need the axiom of choice to prove this statement?
- Canonical choice of many elements not contained in a set
- Strength of $\sf ZF$+The weak topology on every Banach space is Hausdorff
- Example of sets that are not measurable?
- A,B Sets injective map A into B or bijection subset A onto B
- Equivalence of axiom of choice
- Proving the axiom of choice in propositions as types
- Does Diaconescu's theorem imply cubical type theory is non-constructive?
- Axiom of choice condition.
- How does Axiom of Choice imply Axiom of Dependent Choice?
Trending Questions
- Induction on the number of equations
- How to convince a math teacher of this simple and obvious fact?
- Find $E[XY|Y+Z=1 ]$
- Refuting the Anti-Cantor Cranks
- What are imaginary numbers?
- Determine the adjoint of $\tilde Q(x)$ for $\tilde Q(x)u:=(Qu)(x)$ where $Q:U→L^2(Ω,ℝ^d$ is a Hilbert-Schmidt operator and $U$ is a Hilbert space
- Why does this innovative method of subtraction from a third grader always work?
- How do we know that the number $1$ is not equal to the number $-1$?
- What are the Implications of having VΩ as a model for a theory?
- Defining a Galois Field based on primitive element versus polynomial?
- Can't find the relationship between two columns of numbers. Please Help
- Is computer science a branch of mathematics?
- Is there a bijection of $\mathbb{R}^n$ with itself such that the forward map is connected but the inverse is not?
- Identification of a quadrilateral as a trapezoid, rectangle, or square
- Generator of inertia group in function field extension
Popular # Hahtags
second-order-logic
numerical-methods
puzzle
logic
probability
number-theory
winding-number
real-analysis
integration
calculus
complex-analysis
sequences-and-series
proof-writing
set-theory
functions
homotopy-theory
elementary-number-theory
ordinary-differential-equations
circles
derivatives
game-theory
definite-integrals
elementary-set-theory
limits
multivariable-calculus
geometry
algebraic-number-theory
proof-verification
partial-derivative
algebra-precalculus
Popular Questions
- What is the integral of 1/x?
- How many squares actually ARE in this picture? Is this a trick question with no right answer?
- Is a matrix multiplied with its transpose something special?
- What is the difference between independent and mutually exclusive events?
- Visually stunning math concepts which are easy to explain
- taylor series of $\ln(1+x)$?
- How to tell if a set of vectors spans a space?
- Calculus question taking derivative to find horizontal tangent line
- How to determine if a function is one-to-one?
- Determine if vectors are linearly independent
- What does it mean to have a determinant equal to zero?
- Is this Batman equation for real?
- How to find perpendicular vector to another vector?
- How to find mean and median from histogram
- How many sides does a circle have?
The real question is what is $\beth_\omega$ when you don't assume choice.
Assuming $\sf ZF$ the axiom of choice is equivalent to "The power set of an ordinal can be well-ordered". So if $\beth$ numbers are assumed to be $\aleph$ numbers, the axiom of choice already holds, and your question is moot.
However, we can define cardinals in a broader way, which does not necessitate them being well-ordered. This means that we are now free to define the $\beth$ numbers as iterated powers from $\omega$ (or $V_\omega$, which is provably countable). This indeed means that $\beth_\alpha$ is the cardinality of $V_{\omega+\alpha}$, so $\beth_\omega$ is simply the cardinality of $V_{\omega+\omega}$. And indeed Replacement proves that $V_{\omega+\omega}$ is a set, so $\beth_\omega$ exists, in this case.