My dream axiom system is only the integers with the usual addition axioms (commutative, associative), and with induction. a) does it have a name, b) can I show define ab, and show ab=ba in this system?, c) is Gödel valid for this system?
2026-02-22 20:07:11.1771790831
How simple it can be?
72 Views Asked by Bumbble Comm https://math.techqa.club/user/bumbble-comm/detail At
1
There are 1 best solutions below
Related Questions in AXIOMS
- Should axioms be seen as "building blocks of definitions"?
- Non-standard axioms + ZF and rest of math
- Does $\mathbb{R}$ have any axioms?
- Finite axiomatizability of theories in infinitary logic?
- Continuity axioms and completness axioms for real numbers are the same things?
- Why don't we have many non euclidean geometries out there?
- Why do we need the axiom of choice?
- What axioms Gödel is using, if any?
- Determine if U a subspace of $P_3$?
- Why such stark contrast between the approach to the continuum hypothesis in set theory and the approach to the parallel postulate in geometry?
Related Questions in INCOMPLETENESS
- Primitive recursive functions of bounded sum
- Difference between provability and truth of Goodstein's theorem
- What axioms Gödel is using, if any?
- A tricky proof of a Diophantine equation is valid?
- Can all unprovable statements in a given mathematical theory be determined with the addition of a finite number of new axioms?
- Incompleteness Theorem gives a contradiction?
- Is it possible to construct a formal system such that all interesting statements from ZFC can be proven within the system?
- How simple it can be?
- What is finitistic reasoning?
- Language of an Axiomatic System in the Incompleteness Theorem
Trending Questions
- Induction on the number of equations
- How to convince a math teacher of this simple and obvious fact?
- Find $E[XY|Y+Z=1 ]$
- Refuting the Anti-Cantor Cranks
- What are imaginary numbers?
- Determine the adjoint of $\tilde Q(x)$ for $\tilde Q(x)u:=(Qu)(x)$ where $Q:U→L^2(Ω,ℝ^d$ is a Hilbert-Schmidt operator and $U$ is a Hilbert space
- Why does this innovative method of subtraction from a third grader always work?
- How do we know that the number $1$ is not equal to the number $-1$?
- What are the Implications of having VΩ as a model for a theory?
- Defining a Galois Field based on primitive element versus polynomial?
- Can't find the relationship between two columns of numbers. Please Help
- Is computer science a branch of mathematics?
- Is there a bijection of $\mathbb{R}^n$ with itself such that the forward map is connected but the inverse is not?
- Identification of a quadrilateral as a trapezoid, rectangle, or square
- Generator of inertia group in function field extension
Popular # Hahtags
second-order-logic
numerical-methods
puzzle
logic
probability
number-theory
winding-number
real-analysis
integration
calculus
complex-analysis
sequences-and-series
proof-writing
set-theory
functions
homotopy-theory
elementary-number-theory
ordinary-differential-equations
circles
derivatives
game-theory
definite-integrals
elementary-set-theory
limits
multivariable-calculus
geometry
algebraic-number-theory
proof-verification
partial-derivative
algebra-precalculus
Popular Questions
- What is the integral of 1/x?
- How many squares actually ARE in this picture? Is this a trick question with no right answer?
- Is a matrix multiplied with its transpose something special?
- What is the difference between independent and mutually exclusive events?
- Visually stunning math concepts which are easy to explain
- taylor series of $\ln(1+x)$?
- How to tell if a set of vectors spans a space?
- Calculus question taking derivative to find horizontal tangent line
- How to determine if a function is one-to-one?
- Determine if vectors are linearly independent
- What does it mean to have a determinant equal to zero?
- Is this Batman equation for real?
- How to find perpendicular vector to another vector?
- How to find mean and median from histogram
- How many sides does a circle have?
The natural context for looking at addition of natural numbers alone is Presburger arithmetic, $Pres$. The language consists only of the binary function symbol "$+$" and constant symbols "$0$" and "$1$" together with the usual logical symbols, including "$=$." The axioms consist of some basic facts about addition, and the induction scheme for all formulas in the language.
(Note that in fact the constant symbols are redundant, since they can be defined using $+$ alone: $0$ is the unique $x$ such that for all $y$, $x+y=y$, and $1$ is the unique $x$ such that for all $y$, either $y=0$ or there is some $z$ such that $x+z=y$.)
The theory $Pres$ is meant to describe the structure $\mathcal{N}_+=(\mathbb{N}; +, 0, 1)$, in the same way that the intended model of PA is $\mathcal{N}=(\mathbb{N}; +,\times, 0, 1)$. There is a fundamental difference, however: it turns out that $Pres$ completely describes $\mathcal{N}_+$, in the sense that every sentence true in $\mathcal{N}_+$ is provable from $Pres$. Note that this immediately implies that $Pres$ is a complete theory (since if $\varphi$ is any sentence, either $\varphi$ is true in $\mathcal{N}_+$ or $\neg\varphi$ is true in $\mathcal{N}_+$). In particular, Godel's incompleteness theorem does not apply to it.
Note that by the compactness theorem, $Pres$ does not completely describe $\mathcal{N}_+$ up to isomorphism - there will be models of $Pres$ which aren't isomorphic to $\mathcal{N}_+$, for example any uncountable model of $Pres$.
Now, multiplication can be "recursively defined" using addition in an obvious way (more on this below). However, this does not constitute an actual definition in the sense of first-order logic: to put this precisely, the function $\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}\rightarrow\mathbb{N}: (x, y)\mapsto x\cdot y$ is not definable in the structure $\mathcal{N}_+$. There is a fundamental difference between the idea of a recursive definition and a first-order definition, and in general they can't be conflated.
As an aside, and very broadly speaking, the key property of a "strong enough" theory of arithmetic as far as Godel is concerned is that it can "first-orderize" a large class of recursive definitions in an appropriate way. This largely comes down to the ability to treat finite sequences appropriately (see e.g. this question): once we have multiplication, we can talk about finite sequences via Godel's $\beta$ function (and it's even easier if we work in a context with exponentiation directly built in) but in Presburger arithmetic we don't even have a pairing function.
Now let's say a bit about the "recursive definition" of multiplication in $Pres$. There are a few ways to approach this. In my opinion, the most natural one is the following: we write a sentence $\varphi$ in the expanded language $\{+, 0,1, *\}$ which is intended to say that "$*$" is just multiplication. One obvious candidate formula is the universal closure of the conjunction of the following formulas:
$x*0=0$,
$x*y=y*x$,
$x*(y+1)=(x*y)+x$.
(There are plenty of others.) Let's work with this choice of $\varphi$ for the moment.
Good news: there is exactly one expansion of $\mathcal{N}_+$ to our larger language which satisfies $\varphi$ - namely, we have to interpret $*$ as multiplication. This is an easy induction argument.
Bad news: this really only works with this particular model. In general, if $M\models Pres$, there is no reason to believe that there is exactly one expansion of $M$ to a model of $Pres\cup\{\varphi\}$ - maybe there are several, or none. That is, $Pres$ isn't strong enough to guarantee that "multiplication," defined in the obvious recursive way, is a unique well-defined thing.
Now a natural next question is:
(Or conversely, starting with PA, how much can I take away and still have a theory to which Godel applies?)
I think a good place to get started, if you're interested, is to read about self-verifying theories; these are theories which can talk about multiplication to a certain extent, but which manage to prove their own consistency by virtue of not quite proving enough basic facts about multiplication for Godel to apply.
Specifically, they don't prove that multiplication is total! So this is really a big gap. To see the importance of totality, note that even the extremely weak theory Robinson arithmetic, $Q$, is susceptible to Godel, and really the only thing $Q$ can do that Willard's theories can't is prove that multiplication is always defined. Note that there isn't an axiom of $Q$ stating this; the totality of multiplication is an immediate consequence of having multiplication be denoted by a function symbol. In Willard's theories, we don't have a function symbol for multiplication but rather a relation symbol for the graph of multiplication.