We went over the Frenet-Serret formulas today in class and the professor wrote $$d\mathbf{\hat{B}}/dt=-\tau{}\mathbf{\hat{N}}.$$ He said that the coefficient is always negative (so that tau is always positive). I don't understand why this has to be and would quite like an explanation.
2026-03-25 02:56:31.1774407391
Torsion coefficient
244 Views Asked by Bumbble Comm https://math.techqa.club/user/bumbble-comm/detail At
1
There are 1 best solutions below
Related Questions in DIFFERENTIAL-GEOMETRY
- Smooth Principal Bundle from continuous transition functions?
- Compute Thom and Euler class
- Holonomy bundle is a covering space
- Alternative definition for characteristic foliation of a surface
- Studying regular space curves when restricted to two differentiable functions
- What kind of curvature does a cylinder have?
- A new type of curvature multivector for surfaces?
- Regular surfaces with boundary and $C^1$ domains
- Show that two isometries induce the same linear mapping
- geodesic of infinite length without self-intersections
Related Questions in VECTORS
- Proof that $\left(\vec a \times \vec b \right) \times \vec a = 0$ using index notation.
- Constrain coordinates of a point into a circle
- Why is the derivative of a vector in polar form the cross product?
- Why does AB+BC=AC when adding vectors?
- Prove if the following vectors are orthonormal set
- Stokes theorem integral, normal vector confusion
- Finding a unit vector that gives the maximum directional derivative of a vector field
- Given two non-diagonal points of a square, find the other 2 in closed form
- $dr$ in polar co-ordinates
- How to find reflection of $(a,b)$ along $y=x, y = -x$
Related Questions in CURVES
- Studying regular space curves when restricted to two differentiable functions
- The problem in my proof that if $\beta(s)=\alpha(-s)$ then the torsions of the curves satisfies $\tau_{\beta}(s)=-\tau_{\alpha}(-s)$
- Given a circle, can i assume that the point where all the normals went thought and the point where all the tangents are equidistants are the same?
- Function determining temperature of points along a curve (find local maxima temp & local minima temp)
- Reference for $L$-functions of curves
- About the Green's Theorem
- inhomogeneous coordinates to homogeneous coordinates
- Can the relocation of one control point of a NURBS curve be compensated by an adjustment of some weights?
- $\| \gamma'(t) \|$ = constant for all $t$, if and only if $\gamma''(t)$ is normal to the tangent vector space for all $t$.
- proving that a curve with constant curvature contained in a sphere its a circle
Related Questions in FRENET-FRAME
- Studying regular space curves when restricted to two differentiable functions
- Existence of smooth frame along a curve on the manifold
- Proving two reparameterizations by arclength differ only by a sign and constant
- Proving that two curves that are symmetric about the origin have same curvature and same torsion (up to a sign)
- Proving binormal vector is the limiting position of perpendicular to tangent lines
- About the Frenet apparatus: are these expressions wrong?
- What's the relation between the Darboux Frame and the Frenet-Serret on a oriented surface?
- Proving a couple things about $\beta(t) = \alpha(t) - s(t)\cos(\theta)u$, where $\alpha$ is a helix. Is this correct?
- Proving $W(s) = \alpha(s) + pN(s) - p' \sigma B(s)$ is constant, given that $||W(s) - \alpha(s)|| = R^2$
- Using local canonical form to approximate a curve (not necessarily unit speed)
Trending Questions
- Induction on the number of equations
- How to convince a math teacher of this simple and obvious fact?
- Find $E[XY|Y+Z=1 ]$
- Refuting the Anti-Cantor Cranks
- What are imaginary numbers?
- Determine the adjoint of $\tilde Q(x)$ for $\tilde Q(x)u:=(Qu)(x)$ where $Q:U→L^2(Ω,ℝ^d$ is a Hilbert-Schmidt operator and $U$ is a Hilbert space
- Why does this innovative method of subtraction from a third grader always work?
- How do we know that the number $1$ is not equal to the number $-1$?
- What are the Implications of having VΩ as a model for a theory?
- Defining a Galois Field based on primitive element versus polynomial?
- Can't find the relationship between two columns of numbers. Please Help
- Is computer science a branch of mathematics?
- Is there a bijection of $\mathbb{R}^n$ with itself such that the forward map is connected but the inverse is not?
- Identification of a quadrilateral as a trapezoid, rectangle, or square
- Generator of inertia group in function field extension
Popular # Hahtags
second-order-logic
numerical-methods
puzzle
logic
probability
number-theory
winding-number
real-analysis
integration
calculus
complex-analysis
sequences-and-series
proof-writing
set-theory
functions
homotopy-theory
elementary-number-theory
ordinary-differential-equations
circles
derivatives
game-theory
definite-integrals
elementary-set-theory
limits
multivariable-calculus
geometry
algebraic-number-theory
proof-verification
partial-derivative
algebra-precalculus
Popular Questions
- What is the integral of 1/x?
- How many squares actually ARE in this picture? Is this a trick question with no right answer?
- Is a matrix multiplied with its transpose something special?
- What is the difference between independent and mutually exclusive events?
- Visually stunning math concepts which are easy to explain
- taylor series of $\ln(1+x)$?
- How to tell if a set of vectors spans a space?
- Calculus question taking derivative to find horizontal tangent line
- How to determine if a function is one-to-one?
- Determine if vectors are linearly independent
- What does it mean to have a determinant equal to zero?
- Is this Batman equation for real?
- How to find perpendicular vector to another vector?
- How to find mean and median from histogram
- How many sides does a circle have?
In my experience with the Frenet-Serret apparatus it is the cuvrature which must always be positive; it is the torsion which may change sign along a regular curve. To explain:
Let $\alpha(s) \subsetneq \Bbb R^3$ be a unit-speed curve; $s$ is the arc-length along $\alpha$; then as is well-known the unit tangent vector to $\alpha(s)$ is
$T(s) = \dot \alpha(s); \tag 1$
since
$T(s) \cdot T(s) = 1, \tag 2$
it follows in the usual manner that
$T(s) \cdot \dot T(s) = 0; \tag 3$
assuming that
$\dot T(s) \ne 0, \tag 4$
we may set
$\dot T(s) = \kappa(s) N(s), \tag 5$
where $N(s)$ is also a unit vector,
$\Vert N(s) \Vert^2 = N(s) \cdot N(s) = 1; \tag 6$
and by definition
$\kappa(s) > 0; \tag 7$
we have,
$\kappa(s) = \kappa(s) \Vert N(s) \Vert = \Vert \kappa(s)N(s) \Vert = \Vert \dot T(s) \Vert > 0; \tag 8$
$\kappa(s)$ is the magnitude of $\dot T(s)$; $N(s)$ is the direction.
We proceed to examine $\dot N(s)$; since
$T(s) \cdot N(s) = 0, \tag 8$
we have its derivative
$\dot T(s) \cdot N(s) + T(s) \cdot \dot N(s) = 0, \tag 9$
which yields, via (5), (6) and (8),
$\kappa(s) + T(s) \cdot \dot N(s) = \kappa(s) N(s) \cdot N(s) + T(s) \cdot \dot N(s)$ $= \dot T(s) \cdot N(s) + T(s) \cdot \dot N(s) = 0, \tag{10}$
and thus
$T(s) \cdot \dot N(s) = -\kappa(s); \tag{11}$
that is, the component of $\dot N(s)$ along $T(s)$ is $-\kappa(s)$.
Now
$\alpha(s) \subsetneq \Bbb R^3, \tag{12}$
and therefore we cannot assume that $\dot N(s)$ is collinear with $T(s)$; in general we must allow for a component of $\dot N(s)$ normal to both $N(s)$ and $T(s)$; we note however that (6) implies $\dot N(s)$ has no component along $N(s)$ itself, since it yields upon differentiation
$2N(s) \cdot \dot N(s) = 0 \Longrightarrow N(s) \cdot \dot N(s) = 0; \tag{13}$
bearing these facts in mind, we define the binormal vector
$B(s) = T(s) \times N(s), \tag{14}$
and noting that
$T(s) \cdot B(s) = N(s) \cdot B(s) = 0, \tag{15}$
and by virtue of (8) that
$B(s) \cdot B(s) = 1, \tag{16}$
we define the torsion $\tau(s)$ of $\alpha(s)$ as the component of $\dot N(s)$ along $B(s)$, so that
$\dot N(s) = -\kappa(s) T(s) + \tau (s) B(s), \tag{17}$
and we may thus also write
$\tau(s) = \tau(s) B(s) \cdot B(s) = \dot N(s) \cdot B(s); \tag{18}$
we now have, since (14) implies
$T(s) \times B(s) = -N(s), \tag{19}$
$\dot B(s) = \dot T(s) \times N(s) + T(s) \times \dot N(s)$ $= \kappa(s) N(s) \times N(s) + T(s) \times \dot N(s)$ $= \tau(s) T(s) \times B(s) = -\tau(s) N(s). \tag{20}$
In the above derivation of the Frenet-Serret equations (5), (17) and (20), we have nowhere found reason to stipulate
$\tau(s) > 0; \tag{21}$
indeed, it is well-known that
$\tau(s) = 0, \; \dot B(s) = 0, \tag{22}$
when $\alpha(s)$ is a planar curve; see this question and my answer for a detailed explanation.
We may in fact reverse the sign of the torsion of $\alpha(s)$ via the transformation
$\alpha(s) \to -\alpha(s); \tag{23}$
then
$T(s) = \dot \alpha(s) \to -T(s), \tag{24}$
and
$N(s) \to -N(s), \; \dot N(s) \to -\dot N(s); \tag{25}$
however,
$B(s) \to (-T(s)) \times (-N(s))$ $= T(s) \times N(s) = B(s); \tag{26}$
that is, $B(s)$ remains invariant under (23), hence also
$\dot B(s) \to \dot B(s); \tag{27}$
it now follows from
$\dot B(s) = -\tau(s) N(s) \tag{28}$
that
$\tau(s) \to -\tau(s) \tag{29}$
under (23); therefore the sign of $\tau(s) \ne 0$ may always be reversed by taking the transformation (23); it follows that a curve of negative torsion exists if and only if a curve of positive torsion also exists; thus (21) is in fact false in general.
For more on this topic, the reader may consult the answer I gave to this question.
Torsion coefficient